Not signed in (Sign In)

Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2011

    I wanted to post this in the forum to see if anyone else has this issue and whether or not it's functioning as designed (I didn't get much feedback from the devs when I posted regarding this issue awhile back).

    This is pretty much straight from an email I just sent to the devs:

    I wanted to clarify something that currently confuses me:

    Are the main preferences (Ulysses > Preferences… and Ulysses > Fonts & Colors…) meant to be application-wide as I would assume they are supposed to be?

    Currently for me if I add either new markup or change a color for something I have to do this in a project, save it and then import these new settings into EVERY OTHER TEMPLATE I'm using as well as in every project I'm currently working on. This is a nightmare and seems utterly insane to me. It seems to me that project-specific settings such as these should be under Project > Preferences… or something along those lines. These "project settings" would then override the app-wide settings under the Ulysses > Preferences… menu.

    Is this how it's supposed to work or is it a bug? I swear to god I love this app more than any other app I have, but the *very few* issues I have with it seem to send me into a frenzy ;)
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2011
    I think it is working as intended (but I am obviously not the one to answer that). I think that when you make a change there it will be inherited in every *new* project you create, but the preferences will not change in other projects you are already working on. To me, that makes sense, as I typically have my projects set up with different fonts & colors, partly to create distinctive feels, partly because different project have different requirements.
    Having said that, I agree that it can sometimes be difficult to know what changes that are project-specific and what are global (in other cases too, such as export prefs), and I do think this part of the program may need some extra clarity. Perhaps some kind of box that toggles "apply to project" or "apply globally"?
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2011 edited
    Interesting... thanks for the input Niklas. This is why I posted here–to see how other ppl handle things.

    For me I like to keep my settings as homogeneous as possible and only change things that specifically need changing on a per project basis, such as labels. However, even with labels, I have a default set that I work from and just add on to them.

    I still can't imagine a case where someone would need to change markup between specific projects, but what do I know. I understand possibly a situation where you want only pertinent markup and removing, say, hyperlink markup if you're not going to use it, but even this seems strange to me... I would never remove *emphasis* or **strong** markup just because I wasn't likely to use it–I just wouldn't use it. I definitely see the use of **adding** specific markup to a specific project though, but I digress.

    I totally agree with you that some clarification is needed and either my idea (specific project-related preferences under the "Projects" menu) or your idea of a global/project checkbox would be absolutely wonderful.

    In other news, I got an email back from one of the devs (Götz) and he confirmed what you said, and added a bit. Here's what he said:

    "*The settings in the preferences (both "Preferences" and "Fonts & Colors") are project-wide. The intention is that most projects will have some specific Styles & Markers which are only used in that project and are not needed in the other projects. The same applies to Label and Status.*

    *Whenever you start a new project, the settings from your last opened project are used.*

    *As far as I can see, the only way to keep the settings between the projects in sync is the way you described it. I'll have a closer look at the issue and will come back to you if something changes.*"

    This makes sense, however in my mind most people (I think) work off a basic "set" of preferences and then modify those as the project dictates, and as Götz alluded to by saying "…will have **some** specific…" the devs are aware of this. This is what I'm referring to. Current Uls **doesn't** have a place for basic "global" prefs & I think this one feature (which is really the ONLY thing that has confused and baffled me with this nearly perfect app) would greatly benefit the users.

    I guess until (or if) this gets changed I will be forced to continue to save any changed prefs to my main templates and then import those into my current projects. This sucks (IMO) but I refuse to drop my favorite app over something like this :D
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2011 edited
    >I still can't imagine a case where someone would need to change markup between specific projects, but what do I know.

    Well, I switch between writing fiction and science (not science-fiction, real science …) and there are many things that I want to have differently set up between these kinds of writing. I also use specific styles for some idiosyncratic things in most projects. Still, *some* things are indeed used in most, if not all, projects, so it would be good to be able to set these up globally.
    But again, I can see issues with global changes of existing projects. Not so much with fonts & colors but with markup. If you decide to change the tag for a style globally, that style will be "broken" in all projects that have used the old tag, which may not be what you wanted (and will surely cause annoyance for many).

    I am sure there is a brilliant solution that will make everyone happy, but I can see that it may take some thinking...
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2011
    >Well, I switch between writing fiction and science (not science-fiction, real science …) and there are many things that I want to have differently set up between these kinds of writing.

    Ahh, yes. This makes sense. Thanks for your input… I only write technical stuff (no fiction) so hearing your opinion helps me understand where the devs are probably coming from.

    You also make a good point:
    >If you decide to change the tag for a style globally, that style will be "broken" in all projects that have used the old tag

    This is actually one of the things that was driving me nuts (especially before I fully understood how Uls handled preferences), but I hadn't thought about how to implement the changes for past documents. This is a very good point and is likely why the Uls devs went with the preference schema they did… since each style seems to be "hard coded" in each document, a "find and replace" would have to be performed in every document opened that differed from the new global prefs… which would then mean that some sort of style tracking would be involved which would add a layer of complexity and a greater possibility of corruption etc.

    Either way, I'm very glad I posted this and that you were kind enough to discuss this with me. The way my mind works, when I find something that doesn't make sense or I don't understand the logic behind it, I tend to fixate on it to my detriment. Now I understand how the pref schema works with Uls as well as probable reasons why it is the way it is. I will fixate no longer & will continue with my current method without feeling like it's bad design… so thank you :)

    I do believe, however, that this should be documented thoroughly & that a global preference "solution" of some type would be a welcome addition :)

    Also, probably due to the length of time I've been a mac user, I still believe that having the **project-based** preferences under the Ulysses menu is confusing and absolutely non-standard. If these preferences were under the Project menu I would have had zero issues & would have understood what was going on immediately. I dunno… I guess this one will be filed in the "at least I know now" folder and move on :D
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2011
    Actually, we went for a preferences system established by QuarkXpress, if anybody can remember. ;) It *should* work like this: As long as no project is open, preferences are set globally. E.g., first run, set the prefs, all future projects will inherit these prefs. Pref changes made on an opened project only effect this particular project.

    However, existing projects must not be effected by the global changes, since it would mess up tags and stuff, plus, sligh changes made to a project which inherited the global prefs should also carry over to new projects... and this is where it gets a bit messy.

    It currently works so that every new project inherits the prefs of the previously opened project (which effectively sets the global prefs). This is the best/most flexible way for handling tag changes across projects within our current system, though it's definitely NOT the best way to handle it at all, hehe, and we will rework it for the next major version, that's for sure.

    For now, you need to adopt, though, as we won't change it any tme soon.

    Hope I made sense, I'm a bit tired... :)